Shining One

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Posts by Shining One

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  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

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  Shining One

  Celia,
  >The Pro-Life folks say all abortions are wrong.... Killing innocent babies is wrong.... Even when the abortion takes place in the first 4 weeks of the pregnancy.... Is it really a baby you're aborting ? or a bunch of cells so tiny that it can't be see with the naked eye .... Christian conservatives argue there is never ever a reason for a woman to have an abortion.... even when the "woman" is a 13 y.o. girl who has been gang-raped, or just raped by her mom's boyfriend... she must carry the pregnancy to term.... How twisted is this?
  Was it the baby's fault who the father is? What about adoption instead of murder?
  
  >Where are these Pro-Lifers when it comes to sending 18 year olds to Iraq to be blown up?
  
  If they are consistent they will accept the decision of the 18 year old in question. Would you question the courage of some person who decided to go to war in order to defend their country? How about to free another country from a despot who threatened the world? People who join the armed services know that at any point they may be called to defend their homeland from enemies within or enemies without.
  Rex
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  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  Go ahead, Midwich. This is perhaps better as a IM to me directly. I will be headed out of town soon.
  Rex
• 
  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  Good question, Steve.
  >OK, strawman to strawman: Would you have aborted Hitler or Stalin
  Divine providence is the key here. I, being an imperfect, mortal human, would have been sorely tempted to do so and suffer the sin. God chose not to.
  Rex
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  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
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• 

  Shining One

  >I'm still and Atheist with absolute moral standards. Still no god needed.
  Then Jstalin, you are not at all logical and your belief is sheer fantasy.
  Rex
• 
  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  John Doe,
  Please deal with this....
  Some of you believe that some moral absolutes exist. Though there may be some things that are individual moral calls, some things aren't, right? You have admitted that some moral absolutes (rules) exist, yet you cannot see or touch this rule, nor will any of your five senses reveal it to you. What kind of thing is it?
  You of the agnostic, unbelieving variety said that you believe that something exists somewhere in a realm which you can't see, taste, touch, smell or hear. You believe something exists that you can't prove empirically. This is the very same argument against those who believe in God as a basis for saying "there is no proof of God".
  You don't realize that you believe in a lot of things that you can't test in that way, that aren't evident to you. But just because you can't sense it by the five senses doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for you to believe that such a rule exists. In other words, there are other ways to learn about things than just the five senses.
  If you believe that it’s wrong to kill, steal or hurt others then that rule applies to everyone. This is a moral absolute! You have just affirmed a belief in something that is immaterial that you don't access by your five senses but you do access with some certainty by some other means.
  Either way you can be considered rational in believing that such a rule actually exists. Once you do that, it does a lot of work for you. You've made an admission that has profound implications for many other beliefs. There are a whole bunch of other beliefs are bundled with that computer!.
  For example, when you say that some absolute moral laws exist, you're saying that immaterial things, moral laws, certainly do exist. Therefore, materialism as a world view is false. Instead, it is reasonable to believe in things you don't see and can't test with the five senses. Strict empiricism would be false, then! For those that are agnostic or atheistic you have a ‘argument that is suicidal’. It disproves itself!
  My argument is that the creator sets the absolutes and we can see that they do exist, despite them being immaterial and not empirical. The fact that we live as beings aware of our own mortality is also a proof that God exists. In order to be consistent you must admit that fact. If you argue that things cannot be proven that are not empirical you are not being logical.
  
  Rex
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  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  Jeff,
  Thanks for the voice of reason!
  Rex
• 
  77

  You Libs keep 'dancing around the issue'

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since so many of you keep avoiding the primary issue in two other threads, chew on this one!

  terry said this: .

  >life is at the basis of reality for humans.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  >Who is the more hypocrite? The one who allows an unwanted child to be raised in an environment that is proven to spawn a higher crime rate, that leads to crimes that warrant the death penalty, or the one who allows it to never happen?
  Oh, so we just encourage all of the riff-raff, the single moms, to 'kill off that horrible creature before it harms someone else or costs me money'? You would fit right in with the Nazis and the Marxists! So, are you also saying that we should help the black and hispanics kill off all of the criminals coming from their women?
  Rex
• 
  102

  Absolute truths have been admitted....

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had to wade through a lot of muck to find anyone with any reasonable arguments in my last post.

  most were just the usual personal attacks from the fringe and their flock of followers.

  instead of dealing with them, i have decided to post one response to those who made some valid points.

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  Shining One

  Jgnat,
  Since you are so fond of derailing a discussion to side issues, here we go again:
  Some of you believe that some moral absolutes exist. Though there may be some things that are individual moral calls, some things aren't, right? You have admitted that some moral absolutes (rules) exist, yet you cannot see or touch this rule, nor will any of your five senses reveal it to you. What kind of thing is it?
  You of the agnostic, unbelieving variety said that you believe that something exists somewhere in a realm which you can't see, taste, touch, smell or hear. You believe something exists that you can't prove empirically. This is the very same argument against those who believe in God as a basis for saying "there is no proof of God". (I think it is telling that you, who claim to be a Christian, seem to reside in this camp!)
  You don't realize that you believe in a lot of things that you can't test in that way, that aren't evident to you. But just because you can't sense it by the five senses doesn't mean that it's unreasonable for you to believe that such a rule exists. In other words, there are other ways to learn about things than just the five senses.
  If you believe that it’s wrong to kill, steal or hurt others then that rule applies to everyone. This is a moral absolute! You have just affirmed a belief in something that is immaterial that you don't access by your five senses but you do access with some certainty by some other means. (You cited some moral absolutes, so why do you insist on arguing against this?)
  Either way you can be considered rational in believing that such a rule actually exists. Once you do that, it does a lot of work for you. You've made an admission that has profound implications for many other beliefs. There are a whole bunch of other beliefs are bundled with that computer!.
  For example, when you say that some absolute moral laws exist, you're saying that immaterial things, moral laws, certainly do exist. Therefore, materialism as a world view is false. Instead, it is reasonable to believe in things you don't see and can't test with the five senses. Strict empiricism would be false, then! For those that are agnostic or atheistic you have a ‘argument that is suicidal’. It disproves itself! That is one of the points, tied up and delivered to you again. Try to stay off the 'rabbit trails'. I know that is tough for you to do with that merry-go-round reasoning of yours.
  Rex
• 
  102

  Absolute truths have been admitted....

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had to wade through a lot of muck to find anyone with any reasonable arguments in my last post.

  most were just the usual personal attacks from the fringe and their flock of followers.

  instead of dealing with them, i have decided to post one response to those who made some valid points.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Shining One

  >But that is definitely not a universally held moral.
  Doesn't matter, I was pointing out the reality of the definition of God Almighty. Evidently that fact is way beyond your merry-go-round thinking.
  Rex
• 
  102

  Absolute truths have been admitted....

  by Shining One in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i had to wade through a lot of muck to find anyone with any reasonable arguments in my last post.

  most were just the usual personal attacks from the fringe and their flock of followers.

  instead of dealing with them, i have decided to post one response to those who made some valid points.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Shining One

  >There is no list of moral absolutes in the verses cited here, I can't even find a single one - ?? Is this a joke or something?
  
  You asked about avoiding Hell. I showed you some scripture that affects that. If you can't make the connection then so be it...
  Rex